Discussion question
Right......here we go....It would be helpful if some of you guys posted questions and stuff, you know. It's not easy to think of things for good discussions.
Anyways, this is a good topic to discuss, I think.
Why should we do well in our studies? Do studies even matter? We're all going to die, right? So why study? What is the point? People in Jesus' time didn't have compulsory schooling. Jesus didn't. He was just a carpenter's son. Since Jesus didn't go to school, should we?
That's pretty much it. Have fun thinking my peeps
God bless all.
Buhbye.
For now, that is.
Reply to wei-on’s previous post
I'm sorry if the way I put it caused you to misunderstand what I was trying to say…but I by no means at all am trying to say that if we tell others the Good News and if they don’t buy it…we become the cause of their downfall…nonono…that’s definitely not what I’m trying to say…I’m replying that as a respond to lipsing’s comment…and that I agree with him...in fact we should tell people and sow seeds everywhere...
I can’t do anything besides that but God will soften their hearts
I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh. Eze 11:19
I don’t save them nor do I cause their salvation…but God alone can do it
so please do not misunderstand that because I’ll never, ever dare to play God…He’s simply too powerful to be messed with…
and please take extra notes that the quotes I used were taken from the bible. I did not say/suggest that but God did.
when He said He has put this acknowledgement in their hearts, it simply means He did…because yes,
[We must remember however that God will never compromise on His standards]
but these people instead of turning to the Creator, turned to His creations and worship them
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Rom 1:25 ( those who worship other Gods)
and sadly, don't forget
my parents still worship idols.
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. Rom 1:20 (i think this part is for those who have never heard of religions before)
i'll be very surprised if you agree with the philospher about
[We can only imagine an extremely complicated machine for two reasons....either we have seen something like it or someone else has put into our minds the idea of such a machine. Since we are all humans, none of us could have conceived the thought of any god by ourselves. Therefore our beliefs and searches for any gods must be because the one God left a mark in our lives. Our reason for believing in a God is God's imprint in our lives.]
do you believe the philosopher's thought rather than God's very own word?
the contrast:
God says - For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. Rom 1:20
Decrates says - Since we are all humans, none of us could have conceived the thought of any god by ourselves.
do not these both clash?
and this part, i hope it's my misinterpretation(because i don't think like a philosopher so i don't know what he's thinking when he said that)
[Therefore our beliefs and searches for any gods must be because the one God left a mark in our lives.]
is he trying to say God is the one who caused us to sorship idols???
please tell me i misintepreted it. :S
and remember,
The door to heaven is narrow. Work hard to get in, because many will try to enter, but when the head of the house has locked the door, it will be too late. Then you will stand outside knocking and pleading, `Lord, open the door for us!' But he will reply, `I do not know you.' Luke 13:24-25
it is not as easy as we think to enter His Kingdom because the gate is very, very narrow. God emphasized on
work hard to get in because many will try but not all will succeed.
at the end of it, it’s not so of I haven’t heard of you salvation story when i was on earth and because I did very kind stuff, now let me go in…
it takes more than the sinner's prayers to go into His Kingdom. His will is for us to tell others...to spread the story...and bear lasting fruit
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. John 15:16
it's about our obedience
God is kind and He loves us, this is without a doubt...but rmb also...God already warned us
The LORD is a jealous and avenging God; the LORD takes vengeance and is filled with wrath. The LORD takes vengeance on his foes and maintains his wrath against his enemies.
The LORD is slow to anger and great in power;the LORD will not leave the guilty unpunished. His way is in the whirlwind and the storm,and clouds are the dust of his feet. Nahum 1:2-3
He is patient...He gives us chances after chances...He is slow to anger...but at the end..if we still choose to be against Him, He has no choice but to act according to our choice
and lastly, I really do no want to see us ending up arguing over here because this is not why we are here for right? Plus it is the word of God, and we are all His children…lagi lah we shouldn’t be.
there’s ntg to argue about because the word of God is clear.
i'm not here to provoke any fights or arguments but to share what i read from His word when it so
coincidently applies on the questions that's been posted here.
so, wei-on....chill!haha..
again, reply to question
Vernie, the Bible does say that we are saved by faith and faith alone. Then again, God says in Revelation that he will spit our of his mouth all those who are lukewarm. I'll leave it to you to decide what lukewarm means. I know these ideas are kinda semi-contradictory. But they have to be taken into context of the modern day. Life isn't objective. Certain passages apply in different ways to different situations. We must remember however that God will never compromise on his standards. Some things are subject to situation, yet some cannot be argued with.
About the thing about us being blamed for other people's condemnation to hell. God told one of the prophets, I can't remember which, that it will only be the fault of the prophet that Israel is not saved because the prophet does not tell them to stop doing evil and turn back to God. But if the prophet preaches God's message to the Israelites, God would not hold the prophet accountable. The prophet did his job. It was the people who rejected God.
We are not the cause of the damnation of those who go to hell if we tell them the message of salvation. We are only the cause of their eternal suffering if we do not preach the gospel to them. It's not our fault that the people reject God and God knows this.
About the thing about people having no excuse for not knowing God, it must be read with reality in mind. It would be unrealistic to say that all the blame for their damnation rests on the shoulders of those who do go to hell. They have parents who believe in other religions which are false and so on. What Romans is referring to is people who have never heard of any religion at all, or that's what I think. You can't blame someone for believing in another religion and not in Jesus Christ if he has been indoctrinated since the time he was born that only his religion true and all other religions are false. God understands that. However, I don't think that God will allow a person who has never heard the gospel (yet is completely given over to his religion) into heaven.
The philosopher Descartes who was a good Christian says that the reason why people believe in such things as gods and make up things to be their gods is because we were created with a God shaped whole in our lives. Another philosopher, I think this was Descartes as well, gave this example: We can only imagine an extremely complicated machine for two reasons....either we have seen something like it or someone else has put into our minds the idea of such a machine. Since we are all humans, none of us could have conceived the thought of any god by ourselves. Therefore our beliefs and searches for any gods must be because the one God left a mark in our lives. Our reason for believing in a God is God's imprint in our lives.
Sorry. I know the last paragraph is not really so related. But it's interesting food for thought. Go and read philosophy if you want something to make you think.
That's my two cents.
Anyways, if anybody has any questions, post them on the board for discussion. I don't really know what Bible studies you guys would wanna do. Anybody told the counsellors about this yet?
reply to question 2
Actually the bible did say something about ppl-who-have-never-heard-about-God.
Read
Romans 1:18-25For the truth about God is known to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts. Romans 1:19
So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God. Rom 1:20b
If you read the whole context it is actually very clear that if you don’t believe Jesus, you go right down. Period.
Maybe that’s what it means by what wei-on quoted as “them condemning themselves”?
Actually all these while I’ve got this thinking too that if you do good you should end up in heaven and you will be given the last chance at the gate-to heaven. Like wei-on said it does sound bias that if you don’t believe in Jesus you end up in hell even though you did kind and good stuff all your life.
But it wasn’t until JUST NOW that this suddenly struck me.
Why do we even have such thinking that good people should be in heaven?
Aren’t we
SUPPOSED to be kind and good at the first place? In other word, being kind and good is what we are meant to be.
Does it entitle us a license then to go heaven just because we have been what we are supposed to be at the very first place?
Besides, if that is the case then it would be the end of us wouldn’t it?
John 8:7 -"If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
Nobody is without sin, so nobody is “good people”. Then heaven must has been a really quiet and deserted place, hasn’t it?
Indeed the ONLY way to heaven is Jesus, not by just doing good.
Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal (liberation/forgiveness/pardon/freedom) is
not based on our good deeds. It is based on our faith. Rom 3:27
And that, made it very, very clear, crystal clear.
But yet again, it doesn’t mean that faith alone is all what we need to have. No point having only faith in God but do stuff that is against Him right?
So you see, it isn't enough just to have faith. Faith that doesn't show itself by good deeds is no faith at all--it is dead and useless. James 2:17
read context-
James 2:17-26So it's kind of faith-good deeds are clung together.
Lipsing has got a really good point there. What’s the point of sharing the Good News, then when they refuse; we become the cause of them going to hell? Oops.
For about the question whether a believer can lose his/her salvation, I myself am not quite about because I’m kinda wondering too.
God’s salvation is of course, eternal but what we do might turn us away from God. And when we turn away from Him, we lose our salvation right? I really don’t know but does it apply?
I can’t find any scriptures yet that explains that. But:
Not all people who sound religious are really godly. They may refer to me as `Lord,' but they still won't enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The decisive issue is whether they obey my Father in heaven. On judgment day many will tell me, `Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.' But I will reply, `I never knew you. Go away; the things you did were unauthorized. Matt 7:21-23
Only God alone will decide where we end is it not?
reply to question
The Bible does tell us that Jesus is the way, the truth and the light. More importantly, it says that Jesus is the only way. Emphasis on only.
Non-believers haven't really lost salvation. They never truly had it in the first place.
I know it sounds bias that Jesus is the only way and those who do not believe in Jesus are condemned to death. However, as one pastor put it, it is not so much the people being condemned to death as them condemning themselves. This is my version of what he said by the way, with slightly altered terminology and tone, sort of.
This is because Jesus has promised to accept everyone who calls on his name. As God, he will never go back on his promises. Therefore, no one can claim, except of course if they have never heard the gospel, that Jesus rejected them. He clearly says he will accept them should they ask him too. Technically, this means that it is the person who rejects Jesus, as it is impossible, after a fashion, for Jesus to reject anyone who calls on his name. He loves us too much.
As for those who have never heard the gospel, I have truly no idea what happens to them. It was a topic of discussion for my cell group here in Singapore and we kinda decided that it must be subjective. For example, I highly doubt that God would accept a witch doctor completely given over to his arts. I believe that God might save a person who has lived a good life but has never accepted him because the person never heard the gospel. But this is a personal belief, because it makes sense to me. You don't have to believe this.
Sorry bout the lack of exact locations of the verses in the Bible. My Bible knowledge is still really lousy.
Hope this helped.
God bless.
MYF Alpha Session 1 on 5 March 2006
Like what the brochure already said, we watched the video
Christianity: Boring, Untrue & Irrelevant? by Nicky Gumble. It was hilarious but unfortunately, it is very hard to randomly pick a few funny jokes and post them up here, if you get what I mean.
Oh wait, there’s one.
Nicky Gumble was sharing about this lady whose English wasn’t really that good.
Then there was this one time, she was pretty “pumped up” over something and wanted to ask,
“What on earth are you doing?!”
But instead, she asked,
"What are you doing on Earth?!”
So she had indirectly changed the whole phrase into a very good question.
What are you doing on Earth?
Christianity: Boring?
Not really. Think again, which religion in the world is persecuted most?
Being Christians, we tend to have many, or
more challenges in life;
- From God: He tests our faith and through trial itself, He matures us.
- From the Devil: Undoubtedly, this fella will ever try
failing us so we might lose our faith in God. Stupidly enough, he even tried challenging Jesus. Nice try. But c’mon Mr. Devil, get a life!
- From people around us: you might not experience it
yet. But people do give you this “weird” look sometimes when they find that you’re “on fire” for God. They think we are the “Holy maniacs”. Seriously.
- From
ourselves. Oh yes, we do struggle a lot in this area. In fact, this is one of the biggest challenge we face everyday.
Say, telling a white lie to get yourself away from troubles.
One part of you says “NO” because God says we cannot lie.
The other part of you says “WHY NOT?” It won’t kill anybody telling a small white lie once in a while, would it?
Now, which of these would you possibly choose to follow, honestly?
- Boring? Our youth group has got lots of crazy, funny and silly games going around throughout the year, haven’t we? We have outings to places then we starting messing up the place. They were fun, weren’t they? Our retreats to various places around Malaysia had been great, hadn’t they?
- Many, many stories in the bible actually left us taken aback and amazed when we read them, didn’t they?
I don’t, not even for a second, think Christianity is boring. In fact, it’s EXCITING in any ways.
Conclusion: Christianity is not boring – it is about living life to the fullest.
Christianity: untrue?
This is a part where only you can tell yourself and only God can show you. Try Him. You can never imagine what He can do. Even at the very moment you feel that He is most absent, He is actually there
right next to you but you just can never tell.
Conclusion: Christianity – it is the truth.
Christianity: irrelevant?
Without God, life is like a broken pencil… pointless!
Won't you agree?
You say: I’m young and this is the start of the 21st Century! What on earth does Christianity have to offer me?
Primary source:
’I came so they can have real and eternal life, more and better life than they ever dreamed of.’
Jesus of Nazareth, John 10:10 (The Message)
Conclusion: Christianity is not irrelevant – it transforms the whole of our lives.
The video was really good except for the heavy english accent- it's from the UK. What do you expect? So it might need a little more of your concentration than usual to catch what he's trying to say. We speak Manglish ke mah!
Then we had the PIZZA lunch. They weren't exactly
fantastic pizzas from 5 stars restaurants or something. But they are ok-edible and good pizzas. We really did have a LOT of fun, especially the washing up part.
Surprising huh?
The MYFERS having great time during wash-up?
Yes, we definitely did!
Check out pictures on our
Multiply!
CGMC YOUTH CONCERT
CGMC IS HAVING A YOUTH CONCERT ON
16 MARCH 2006 (THURSDAY) FROM
8.30 PM - 10.30 PM AT
SHEKINAH SANCTUARY, CGMC IPOH.
Hey people, if you're free why not ask some friends to go along? Should be nice.
MYF Attendance Statistic for February 2006
Regular members5 Feb 06: 20/37
12 Feb 06: 25/37
19 Feb 06: 19/37
26 Feb 06: 20/37
Korean members5 Feb 06: 12/12
12 Feb 06: 8/12
19 Feb 06: 12/12
26 Feb 06: 12/12
Counsellors5 Feb 06: 2/5
12 Feb 06: 3/5
19 Feb 06: 3/5
26 Feb 06: 3/5
Irregular members (abroad/ outstation etc.)16 members
Visitors/ others5 Feb 06: 1/1 1 new friend joined
12 Feb 06: 2/3 2 new friends joined
19 Feb 06: 2/4 1 new friend joined
26 Feb 06: 2/5 1 new friend joined
Overall5 Feb 06: 36/71
12 Feb 06: 38/73
19 Feb 06: 36/74
26 Feb 06: 37/75
